Juror Talks in Cavness Pelvic Mesh Case!

//Juror Talks in Cavness Pelvic Mesh Case!

Juror Talks in Cavness Pelvic Mesh Case!

Jurors, Hopnews

Jurors, Hopnews

Mesh News Desk, October 7, 2015 ~ A juror in the Cavness trial has agreed to come forward after a call was put out on the last Mesh News Desk story.   Your editor has confirmed through two sources that she was an actual juror.  Here is what “Karen” has to say.  She wants to remain anonymous. Likely Karen will respond to your questions beneath this story.

Your editor thanks this juror for coming forward.  

Q: What was the discussion in the jury room?

“The discussion in the jury room was very different depending on the day & the topic.  We were given five questions to answer but if you answered “no” you could not proceed to the next set of questions.

‘The first question asked if there was a design defect with proximate cause in regards to Carol Cavness.  The definition of proximate cause is a “substantial factor” which is where the first confusion set in.  Substantial factor does not mean the LARGEST factor, it just means a large factor & that there could be numerous factors (which was explained to us by the judge).

‘This was the big go around on Friday. People said they do not think the mesh was the main cause & it was argued that it did not have to be the main cause.  This was on Friday afternoon.

“On Friday afternoon everyone was insanely exhausted.  We were to be there at 9 & they were not ready for us until 11:30. So we sat in a very small jury room for over 2 hours. Then we had to sit through closing arguments & then we were read the charges & by the time they let us deliberate it was Friday @ 3:30.  As you know-best decisions are not made at 3:30 on a Friday afternoon, so we decided to call it quits for the day around 4:45 because we felt as though we were getting nowhere & Monday we would have had fresh minds.”


Q: Did the jury think they had reached a decision for the Plaintiff on Friday afternoon? 

“I do not believe anything discussed Friday was relevant. No one was focused. Everyone was very stressed, tired & numerous other emotions. It’s a lot to have been thrown on us for a Friday.”


Q: What changed?

“Let me talk about what changed between Monday morning & Monday afternoon.  When we got there Monday we submitted the question about proximate cause.  Once that was explained we took a vote on the first question. The results were 9-3, in favor of the plaintiff.  We had to reach 10-2 so this is the route we took.  We asked the 3 (for the defendant) to explain why they thought what they thought & how they came to reach their decision. During that time people began to agree or say they were on the fence.  We took another vote & it was 4(defendant)-3(plaintiff) 5-Maybe’s.

“The MAIN reason people changed their vote was because in all the doctor’s reports & evidence given, her pain was the same before the surgery as it was after the surgery.  If her pain was exactly the same – how could it be the mesh?  The defendants also argued throughout the case it was a pulled muscle in the pelvic floor & pelvic floor therapy would help substantially.  This was recommended to her numerous times throughout the years & she barely started going Mid-2015; which did not help the case & although she is going now the jurors said “well now they have years & years to correct in therapy vs. if she would have gone in 2012.”  That was a very large portion of what had changed.”


Q: What was the confusion about?

“The confusion was 100% with the question – “Was there a design defect.” We had sat in that court room for 2 weeks.  We heard about her job, her family, her numerous surgeries to remove the mesh, whether the mesh was still inside Carol, whether the mesh took tissue out of Carol when it was explanted, internal emails from Ethicon asking “If there is no benefit with the mesh over native tissue repair why are we doing it.” We heard this for 2 weeks & the “design” of the Prosima was never discussed.

“It wasn’t that it was disproven that there WAS NOT a defect.  It was not proven to us either way. The questions we were expecting were “should Ethicon ever have put this on the market” “is there still mesh in Carol Cavness” etc etc. Not if there was a design defect. They did talk about how the mesh was denser than that of Prolift or Prolift+M (not sure the technical name)- but it was brief & that is not a defect, it’s just their opinion.”


Q: Who was that guy who told the lawyers he didn’t like corporations and yet remained on the jury, he was not stricken?

“I have no idea who this would be? There were only 4 men (5 with an alternate) & I do not remember anyone saying that.  We also did not find out Ethicon was a part of Johnson & Johnson (a giant corporation) until the juror’s were picked & opening statements started.”

“Let me know what else you may need!

“I am very, very sorry for the loss Carol Cavness has faced & the fact that she had to air all her “dirty laundry” to complete strangers.  I hope & wished she would have won.  Unfortunately, not everyone thinks the way I do.”

By |2015-10-07T14:17:39+00:00October 7th, 2015|News|89 Comments

About the Author:

I’m National News Editor, Jane Akre and I began Mesh Medical Device News Desk aka Mesh News Desk (MND) in the summer of 2011 just after the Food and Drug Administration issued an explicit warning to the public that complications associated with surgical mesh used for prolapse repair (POP) and incontinence (SUI) are NOT rare! That was the starting point for the litigation you see today and thousands of lawsuits have been filed by women whose lives have been altered, some permanently, by the use of this petroleum-based product.


  1. Hal Lewis October 7, 2015 at 2:40 pm - Reply

    My question would be this:

    Did any of the jurors ever indicate that they had even heard about “defective mesh” before this case… or did all of this seem to come as a surprise to them?

    Obviously all of us here know all about mesh and the dangers it presents… but I think we sometimes are guilty of assuming that everyone else in the public knows the same thing. I am really curious as to whether or not a jury of 12 people could be selected where none of them knew a thing about mesh litigation, etc.

    • Karen October 7, 2015 at 7:17 pm - Reply

      During the questioning period of potential jurors they asked f we had heard advertisements. And what we thought of them. People who voiced a very strong opinion about mesh, either positive or negative, we’re not chosen. We are not allowed to google or look up anything after the trial

      Starts. They asked me and I said “I’ve heard it during commercial breaks but I just remember it as background noise while I was waiting for my show to come back on”. There were numerous people with opinions about mesh and chronic pain, surgerys, doctors duties to patients, etc. those jurors were not chosen.

      • Bejah Blue October 10, 2015 at 11:55 am - Reply

        So we live in an increasingly interconnected matrix of cultures and tools that are a large part of our everyday lives that make us more aware of what is going on in the world than we ever have been. Who does not have a computer, a cell or smart phone, a tablet or other device that connects us to the rest of the world in profound ways.

        It is not 1952. You can not ask a jury or a potential juror to not watch television, nor can you ask them if they are aware on any level of what is going on in the world. They are very aware. Tell me then, respected members of the state Bars of this country, tell me representatives of the Justice Department, and attorneys general, judges and legal pundits and watchdogs….HOW IN THE H*LL CAN WE HOPE FOR A JURY THAT REPRESENTS THE PEOPLE? You allow the defendants legal team to dismiss any potential juror who knows anything about the world. What kind of juries are we left with then? Juries are supposed to be the voice of the people and as such a core element of the balance of power and a constant reminder for us all that this was intended to be a nation governed by the people, not by corporations who in the case of bad corporate citizens strive with intent in their attempt to manipulate juries beginning with the selection process and continuing their pre-meditation with malice in deliberately trying to befuddle and misdirect juries. And throughout this the judge just sits there like a bump on a log?

        It’s funny, we swear on the Bible before testimony but how many of us are people of faith? That symbol along with so many others that have defined the belief system of the American people….all are losing their meaning for us, and their are increasing cries from the far right to abandon that which is no longer relevant in their opinion including the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and I expect that in 50 years there will no longer be Social Security or Medicare. Beware of the “far right”. They are the secret government that we are always told does not exist. But it does, this is no fairy tale.

        They want to eliminate the elderly because they are no longer hungry consumers, and because they need more medical care, and because they no longer work and so are not productive workers for the state. They want us to die and I am one of an increasing number who believe that we will see in the coming years an abandonment of the elderly with the exception of those that are high profile, or those who can pay cash for their medical care. Today there are about 8 billion people on the planet. What do you think that number will be in another 20 years.

        Do not expect the Justice Department or Health and Human Services to help you if you are getting old, if you are poor, if you are a woman, if you are disabled. This is a top down conspiracy to eliminate the elderly and others that are not productive.

        The Bohemians are discussing this “option” now as they dine on the fresh salmon my cousin flies in from his fleet of boats in Alaska. Grilled salmon under the stars surrounded by the majestic stands of pines in the summer twilight…a divine way to spend an evening, but sorry you are not welcome. It is a private affair. It is where the fate of the world is decided. I wonder what the pine trees think.


    • Bejah Blue October 10, 2015 at 9:06 pm - Reply

      Interesting question Hal. My guess would be that it would depend on the demographic in the area where the questions were posed. If in Manhattan’s upper east side in front of the Metropolitan Museum of Art my guess would be over half at least would know something about polypropelene mesh. In middle America (meaning any smaller less sophisticated environment) that number would drop significantly and that is sadly understandable.

      If I am honest with myself and if I were not a victim I would have to say I was aware but to some degree I would not have wanted to know more simply because it did not have anything to do with my life (Terrible of me) and there is only so much bad news about the world a person can handle.

      These days I do not watch much news, especially local news but “news” about polypropelene mis-use is not likely to be covered by local news and as we now know so well, it is not covered by “mainstream media” for very disturbing reasons and for more mundane and practical ones….media empires are built on sensational, violent stories, much like television network programming and not so much on (what should I call it) human interest stories.

      I might challenge a few of our more intrepid members to walk into “their Starbucks” and ask twelve people and report back to us what they said. Starbucks folk are more likely to be invested in participation.

      Sad that we learn about some of the most important news that may be relevant to us as private citizens by watching sensational ads by ambulance chasing law firms with “800” numbers. I must admit though that I might still not have made the connection if it were not for one of those ads. I did not sign on with a law firm that advertises on television, but I must thank them for making me aware of what was implanted in me but it took me three years post implant. I guess I am a bit dense. These days I talk to employees in every doctors office I go to about the polypropelene mesh and many of those in medical offices still say they do not know anything about it. Maybe they just do not want to talk about it or think about it.

      The next time I go in to Palm Springs I will ask twelve people and let you know what I learned.


  2. Bejah Blue October 7, 2015 at 3:22 pm - Reply

    Thank you “Karen” for coming forward in this way, not many people would bother I fear. I have great respect for you for doing this to help me/us understand what happened.


    • Karen October 7, 2015 at 7:15 pm - Reply

      I have explained most of it in the article above. If you have any other questions please let me know

      • Nanny Bug October 23, 2015 at 3:43 am - Reply

        I too would just like to say thank you for standing up for what’s right Karen !!! This shows me & thousands of others that good honest people do still exist . I certainly things can be reversed & changes made to the patient that lost her case. This is a horrible thing to endure . I would imagine these that are treated in this manner are the ones that get suicidal . It’s humiliating to go through let alone share your vaginal nightmares with the world . Bless her sweet heart !!!! I am a mesh survivor of four operations myself . It’s so hard to go through the daily & nightly battles without thinking would your family be better off with you not here than to deal daily with all of our pains & struggles in life . My own family & how they feel is of great concern to me as well !! Do they really believe our stories . Do they set back and pretend to understand something we can’t figure out ourselves . Please J&J & all mesh companies end this sadness & help us all to have the best quality of what life we have left in us. Salvage your good name & right this wrong doing for those of us that are suffering terribly bad. It’s so simple to say I’m sorry for all the harm I have caused to you ladies . We would like to help you as much as we can to make this right at whatever the cost may be. WILL WE EVER HEAR THOSE WORDS ? There is a price to pay for those that bring harm to others . Women have died from this so should I be able to bring charges for attempted murder on this company ?

  3. Terri October 7, 2015 at 3:45 pm - Reply

    Thank you, Jane! I am grateful to see a Juror step forward and explain the confusion. Our justice system is so broken and even corrupt more often than not.

    This instantly takes me back to the case that was dropped a week or two ago against a manufacture because they wanted to bring up her criminal history from years ago, prior to a mesh implant and the Judge was going to allow it, But, so much is not told or is withheld those Jurors.. for instance, there’s over 100,000 cases filed or more just in the US in the MDL’s and State courts against multiple pharmaceutical companies for these torture devices called transvaginal mesh that have caused us detrimental harm, excruciating pain that many are losing the will to even carry on.

    I honestly wished every single potential juror in these cases, had to spend 24 hours with a mesh injured woman. Our lives as we knew them before mesh, will never ever be the same.

  4. kitty October 7, 2015 at 3:52 pm - Reply

    Why in G-d’s name woild a pelvic mesh be implanted in a woman with pelvic pain?

    • Jane Akre October 7, 2015 at 9:30 pm - Reply

      Her pain, as she said, was more like pressure… her colon was prolapsing through her vagina…. It was not the same as mesh pain.

    • Bejah Blue October 10, 2015 at 9:14 pm - Reply

      They will implant anyone they can, I think, Kitty,

      (1) The more lab rats the better

      (2) More implanting = Greater profits

      (3) They even implant people with malformed pelvic organs


      PS If you think the reason they demand all of our medical records and reports on every medical procedure and office visit post implant that is remotely relevant is NOT to look for something to use to dismiss our cases only….there is another reason, they are gathering data on their lab rats in preparation for their next “new and improved” version. They wanted medical data on me back to the 1980s. My implant was in 2010. Someone told me their attorneys do this to pad their billable hours…takes one to know one.

  5. Aaron Leigh October 7, 2015 at 4:11 pm - Reply

    Jane- AS ALWAYS, thank you for being so resourceful and keeping us informed!!

    And “Karen,” thank you so much for giving us a peek into the deliberations. It is brave of you to speak about the trial, and I’m sure it was difficult to have such a responsibility in your hands! Please continue to educate others about the PREVENTABLE harm of polypropylene mesh. Now that you have such an education, you can make a huge difference. THANK YOU FOR COMING FORWARD!

    • Karen October 7, 2015 at 6:58 pm - Reply

      Aaron, please let me know if I can answer any other questions for me!

      I learned a tremendous amount. I just wish it would have gone in favor of the plaintiff

      • Jane Akre October 7, 2015 at 9:24 pm - Reply

        Karen- did you vote for Ms Cavness at one time? Or never?

        • Karen October 8, 2015 at 8:24 am - Reply

          Yes I did.

          • Bejah Blue October 20, 2015 at 8:03 pm

            I trust we can take some comfort in the thought that you, armed with what you have learned, will never allow yourself to be implanted with anything but native tissue should the question arise for you at some point in your life.

            I also hope that you will share what you have learned with other women and assist us in word of mouth efforts to warn others, men and women about such products. Thank you again for your testimony here.


  6. addison October 7, 2015 at 4:12 pm - Reply

    Thank you, Jane and juror. Can you please let us know more about the explanation or description of Ms. Cavness’ pain prior to tvm placement and after surgery? We may have missed something, but from what we’ve read, it seems Ms. Cavness experienced some pain due to prolapse — after lifting a heavy object at work — but pelvic pain wasn’t typical for her, was described as more of an extreme pressure and was unlike the chronically moderate to severe pain she’s had since surgery.

    • Karen October 7, 2015 at 7:07 pm - Reply


      I will tell you what I told Jane.

      This was the major problem was that her testimony two weeks ago, was just that, her testimony two weeks ago. The statements on the medical records presented in evidence was a difference. The defense made a point and unfortunately it was a very good point. The medical records from 3 years ago had described the pain as the same before and after the surgery. If the pain was the same as it was before-why would the mesh be the problem. Why should we go off what carol said her pain was (her trying to remember 3 years ago) rather than the medical reports taken that day. Which unfortunately is a good point. If you watch her testimony a lot of her answers were “I don’t know”

      Or “I don’t remember”. We went off of medical records and what she reported her pain was at the time, not at the time she testified. I do not think you can fault us for goint off medical records taken at the time of, rather than going off what was said years later.

      Please let me know how else I can help

      • Sidney W October 12, 2015 at 7:56 am - Reply

        Hi Karen,
        I am very grateful for you coming forward and sharing insight. My concern/ comment is this. I have recently received all of my medical records to have surgery for Pudendal Entrapment. As I read through my records I was more than shocked to see where the physician wrote statements in my charts that were not true at all. I am a Registered Nurse and have been for 25 years. It was apalling the number of times the physians comments in my History and Physical which were blatantly inaccurate. For example, I stated I have had Dyspaunia 4months after my mesh implants in 2008, a physician wrote on the note I have only had Dysparunia for the past 2-years. This is an incorrect statement by the physician. So my response is, physicians see many, many patients, their notes are far from accurate. Yes they are a part of the overall picture, but should not be used as the Golden Truth. Another example is that I have told every healthcare provider since the mid 1990’s that I am allergic to Victyl Suture and Skin Staples. These extremely pertinent Allergies are included in some of my charts but not in all of my chart from different providers. Having been in the healthcare industry since 1978, physician’s notes should not be given all the weight that they are. Many times it is a medical student or resident taking the information down, and they are just that, students learning medicine. Would a juror give the same credence to the Nursing history and physical if the information was being obtained by a nursing student? This is my concern, doctors notes are filled with mistruths because they rush through dictation because the turn around time for an OR is 20 minutes and considerably less in the physicians offices. Many times, based on my own experiences as an RN, physicians truly don’t recall which patient they are even on let alone dictating on.

        • Jane Akre October 12, 2015 at 2:09 pm - Reply

          Hi Sidney…. thanks for writing….. I took the liberty of removing your last name just in case you are represented~ja

        • Karen October 13, 2015 at 8:31 pm - Reply

          Sidney. I will respond to you first thing tomorrow morning

    • Bejah Blue October 10, 2015 at 10:15 pm - Reply

      I would describe my pre-implant discomfort as mild, but then I did not go asking for an implant. It was something that was done to me without sufficient knowledge, without benefit of educational materials or counseling, and without informed consent.

      Ms. Cavness did a job that I expect most women would not do. She would hopefully have had to have some degree of medical clearance, required by her employer’s insurer no doubt. I would like to see those documents. It seems highly probable (and I have not read any of the case data available to us) that some degree of inappropriate strain would have been suffered by her abdominal organs, her spine, her pelvis, and her legs at the very least, especially where the work involved chronic pain and pressure from repetitive movements. I would like to know of the possible impact on her spine. Post implant the strain on her body would have had the potential to cause even more damage. Women’s bodies are built differently and in the opinion of most spine specialists women should not ever lift more than about 25 pounds. Has anyone considered that her employer bears some responsibility here? So, the work she did was probably not a healthy choice for her body especially long term. Many if not most women experience some degree of prolapse as they age and especially if they have had children. She clearly would have experienced discomfort and or pressure from whatever degree of prolapse she experienced. She may have also had some degree of spondolisthesis or damage to the lumbar/sacral area of her spine and then added to that was the pain and other symptoms related to being implanted with polypropelene mesh which the manufacturer of the raw material had warned was not ever under any circumstances to be used in the human body. The document bearing that critically important statement was never introduced into evidence in this case. WHY? Then there is the matter of “Beyond a reasonable doubt”. We can not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the polypropelene mesh (a toxic derivative of petroleum) caused her pain when it has been alleged in tens of thousands of cases that it has caused pain and numerous symptoms…do I have this right. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff. Did we call expert witnesses? Did we call up previous cases where the plaintiff’s counsel won the case for their client? What exactly did the plaintiff’s legal team do in this case to effectively and responsibly represent their client?

      The attorney who represented this woman should either file an appeal on her behalf, no matter what the cost or go home and hang himself in his bedroom closet. We will be watching to see if he buys himself a new Bentley.

      I regret being so brutal but I am sick of this, the lies, the misrepresentation, the manipulation of jurors, and the fact that NOTHING is done, the FDA is corrupt and worse than useless, the DOJ seems mute, and Johnson & Johnson continues to run its game like a mafia hit man in a sharkskin suit.

      My heart aches for this woman. I hope she will win on appeal. I hope she considers the responsibility her employer may bear in this. I would like to know who told her it was “OK” to go back to work doing the same job. If it was a doctor, then as far as I am concerned that is medical malpractice, and I do not care how hard it is said to be to win such cases? Who said it was hard? Could it have been the AMA? What might their motivation have been. Personally I do not believe anyone any longer, and any trust I place in physicians is guarded.


  7. addison October 7, 2015 at 5:09 pm - Reply

    Was it also shown the implant eroded or became exposed? She experiences other complications (chronic infections and discharge) that weren’t present before surgery, correct? What were these attributed to if not present prior to tvm placement? Were erosion, infection, discharge, any other complications and the possibility or difficulty/impossibility of removal discussed in relation to the information Ms. Cavness and her doctor had/knew before surgery?

    • Karen October 7, 2015 at 7:07 pm - Reply

      There was no erosion or exposed mesh.

      • addison October 15, 2015 at 1:23 pm - Reply

        Karen, thank you for reaching out to Jane Akre and answering questions. We know this has been a stressful experience for you and appreciate your insight. It was very nice of you to ask how you can help, too.

  8. Greg Vigna October 7, 2015 at 5:49 pm - Reply

    Clearly not trial ready. Pain was not worked up and treated.

    • kitty October 7, 2015 at 8:41 pm - Reply

      Dr Vigna. Why was there such a rush to trial?

      • Greg Vigna October 8, 2015 at 5:18 pm - Reply

        I’m not sure of the procedural history that led up to this trial. There generally is nothing fast. If someone has severe pain that limits function and the means to obtain medical treatment for that pain then generally there should be some evidence in the medical record. For the women in this category it is important to be evaluated by doctors who understand chronic pelvic pain and utilize different treatments depending on what they clinically believe is the source of pain. Even if the pain improves 20% for a short time it provides a medical foundation for care going forward and diagnostic evidence of where the pain is coming from. It might be from muscle, it might be from nerve, in might be from both. or other sources. By identifying the source of the pain it provides the foundation for care going into the future but also supports how the specific mesh device caused that specific source of pain.

        My message to every catastrophic woman is to seek the best care possible for HEALTH, and the legal issues related to compensation will work themselves out. Best practice medical care provides the foundation for future care (a life care plan), and provides the foundation for specific causation (how that damn device caused that specific disabling pain) that avoids this type of demoralizing loss.

        I think every woman I have talked to will attest to that statement. Seek the best care possible.

      • Bejah Blue October 10, 2015 at 10:25 pm - Reply

        Advocate is right. The defense legal team knew it would be an easy win for them all things considered. Remember to look to examples in the natural world that help us understand how things work in our world. The predator in the wild goes after the weakest member of the herd first. Shall I take us to the arguments about “Survival of the fittest” or is that too deeply disturbing? The question would be, how do we define “fittest”. But I doubt any among us want to go there.

        We must all be much more careful about the legal team we select to represent us. Some are simply incompetent. Some are not qualified to play with “the big boys”. Some just want part of the action and hope for 15 minutes of fame, some just think about money. Every case that is lost by a plaintiff hurts us all. We can not afford to tolerate attorneys that are not capable of taking on the level of expertise that these defendants can afford.


  9. Advocate October 7, 2015 at 6:07 pm - Reply

    I’m curious if the jury had issues with the short time the mesh was implanted. Approximately three months from implant date to her first ex-plant? To point, did they believe the mesh was in for such a brief time, as to not be responsible for the problems years later?

    I’m almost positive, this was a case defense wanted to take to trial. It’s known in the bellwethers as a defense pick. Pre-existing complaints, coupled with a short implant duration and no documented difference in pain level or frequency.

    All of that creates the perfect storm for reasonable doubt. It is fairly clear that the majority of the jury, was looking for something more substantial to identify product design failure. Simply expecting lay people to understand weight of mesh or the chemicals in the polypropylene, is asking much from a jury who has had no exposure prior to their selection. Some will get it, others will not. Some believe in the sciences and again, others do not. Look how much victims have had to learn and the years that has taken. Do we expect others to soak it up in as little as two weeks?

    Another aspect of jury duty is that two weeks. How many of us could willingly take two weeks out of our lives and not feel pressures of profession and home to “get things” wrapped up. By admission, “everyone was insanely exhausted , stressed and numerous other emotions.”

    There’s a very old saying around law, “it’s not what you know, but what you can prove”. In this case, it appears the jury wanted, at the least, something more definitive about the flaw in product design. Part of this can be attributed to the world of TV and movies. CSI always wraps up their show, with a clear trail of evidence. Reality…seldom is it that simple for the real world, not on a 48 minute episode. Trial is 50/50 on a plaintiff’s best day.

    This trial buoys JJ to some degree, although I think they expected this outcome and not because they believed in the righteousness of the product. They believed because, there were contributing factors they could exploit. The clients pain unchanged, the failure to seek suggested treatment and even the smoking issue when advised to quit. You can’t say well I reduced the intake. No doctor said well okay, have 5 instead of 10 a day. Sure 5 was better than 10 but not better than 0.

    Do we all understand now what it looks like to a jury? You must seek treatment. If you don’t have the means for treatment then you must document attempts. The medical records need to indicate the nature of the injury and that it is substantially different from anything that existed before.

    Whatever we might think about this trail and the verdict, might be drastically altered on December 7th. We don’t need another “day that will live in infamy”. JJ is cunning and they play for keeps and so do the plaintiff attorneys. Still, it requires a jury of peers, who understand the complexities of the case, to come away with a positive result for plaintiffs. This isn’t easy for anyone.

    • Karen October 7, 2015 at 7:09 pm - Reply

      It was not proven to us that the mesh was the problem. As much as I believed it was. The evidence did not support that thought. Again one of the major negatives for the plaintiff was that the pain was the same before and after implant.

      • Jane Akre October 13, 2015 at 4:57 pm - Reply

        That’s not what I heard….. before the implant it was “pressure” and painful…. afterward it was sharp like labor pains. That’s what I remember but you are correct, Defense did try to obfuscate that issue. You would have to really listen and understand the type of pain that so many experience after mesh.

        • Bejah Blue October 17, 2015 at 10:52 pm - Reply

          All of us could tell a judge, a jury or the general public who did not have the experience with pain that we have, that pain has many faces, many names and we can feel them all distinctly, they do not melt into one. I think if would be very possible for someone, especially if under pressure, stressed, etc. to use the word “pain” for something that required a more subtle distinction for the sake of differentiation. On some pain reporting documents choices for describing pain generally may include “pressure” which is really quite different than “pain”. To say that this victim is undeserving because she allegedly had “pain” both before and after her surgery leaves me speechless. It is right that we ask ourselves the very serious question of how could this happen. Going to trial is more of what one among us characterized “a crap shoot” than I, for one, ever imagined it could be. When you also consider that the mfg. is allowed to appeal with the blessing of the court…what is the value in trial at all. I am left feeling that my best option in life is to stay away from doctors and courts, far away. They will lie to you, use you, and destroy your life and then go off to a posh cafe for lunch and not give you a moments thought. This is not the world I thought it was, or was it always this evil and as I have gotten older have I just seen it more clearly.


    • Barb October 11, 2015 at 8:52 pm - Reply

      ADVOCATE……….I agree with some of your statements. and yes I wonder what her pain was previously what her doctor notes were noted for the reason. However this is certainly one important reason why everyone who has issues with these products one under any terms must continue to seek healthcare!! Being noted by yourself would not stand up in court it has to be documented by your doctor’s! These manufacturers are just making it so much harder for us who have injuries, will later in life be diagnosed with more sever injuries and again they have us at their mercy!! Certainly these attorney’s were so unprepared for trial, why would they go to court so unprepared?? They say our attorney’s have sympathy, will get their clients the money they deserve and don’t they have to bring in front of the judge as exibits that includes the defense attorney’s as well?? It seems more to me like a conspiracy!!!! Can these attorney’s be fully trusted along with the judge?? If a case is taking to court you would make sure you have all I’s dotted and T’s crossed! I did feel the doctor’s testimony was completely strong!! Why is it the defendants can produce all and any information but yet so much restrictions on the plantiffs, since the defendants have appealed every case I wonder if the judge will allow plantiffs the same???

  10. Karen October 7, 2015 at 7:14 pm - Reply

    I would also like to comment

    After the trial the attorneys for both defense and plaintiff were in the court room. I told the plaintiff I would help and answer any questions they had so they can improve in future cases. But I also told j&j they should have never put this product on the market and if they did, they need

    To do a better job of telling doctors who use their products when FDA sends out notices about products we are using. J&j believes it is the doctors responsibility to keep up with the news and alerts about their products. I used the example “I drive a Toyota, when someone is wrong with my Toyota, they send

    Me a letter, they don’t expect me to stumble upon it one day on the Internet.

    • Jane Akre October 7, 2015 at 9:23 pm - Reply

      Good response. You know your Toyota has a more accurate tracking system through the cars VIN# than your medical device. There is no tracking. its the wild west!!!! The proposal to have a device registry is somewhere within the FDA but is not a reality. Add that to the fact that medical devices are not FDA “Approved” for safety but cleared for sale.. The FDA relies on the honesty and integrity of the manufacturer.

      • Karen October 8, 2015 at 8:26 am - Reply

        Which clearly did not work here. I do not believe it is the fda’s job. Johnson and Johnson need to do a better job when there are problems with their product

        • Jane Akre October 12, 2015 at 2:26 pm - Reply

          Karen. that’s what the trial showed… J&J was NOT careful and did put put patient safety first. But you were there, you heard it first hand.

          • Karen October 13, 2015 at 8:35 pm

            That is what the trial Showed. But that was not the question at hand

        • Bejah Blue October 21, 2015 at 1:14 pm - Reply

          The only problems Johnson & Johnson seem at all interested in addressing are those concerning damage control, image preservation and bleeding profit margins. In their planning and strategy sessions the bottom line is “How much money can we make before we will be forced to retire or refocus (Africa markets for ex.) a product? How is polypropelene mesh different than a bag of potato chips to them? Not much in important respects. They are both products that are produced to generate revenue and profits. Neither is really produced to benefit humanity. Do we really think these corporations would be in the Research and Development business without the existence of a high return on investment… the profit motive?


  11. Andagain October 7, 2015 at 7:43 pm - Reply

    I also hope this helps on December 7th, and that the injured ask their attornies how they will address these issues in upcoming trials.

    • Greg Vigna October 8, 2015 at 5:22 pm - Reply

      Hopefully these cases have been worked up from a medical standpoint. I am worried because these are older cases where there wasn’t much known about mesh related pain and few if any rational treatments. I’m worried that many of these women will have just surrendered to the fact that ‘this is how its going to be’ prior to a proper work up.

      Women are now understanding their injuries within a few months of onset.

  12. addison October 7, 2015 at 7:45 pm - Reply

    Was Ms. Cavness given the opportunity to explain why therapy

    was suggested many times but not started until recent months? There are legitimate reasons for delay. One of my providers once mentioned the possibility of further damage or complications with therapy. It’s important to first know if there is erosion, exposure or contraction–especially if currently suspected and with previous occurence. Insurance coverage, finances and rides (if needed) also matter because not everyone can afford extensive therapies or get to and from so many sessions.

    • Jane Akre October 7, 2015 at 9:19 pm - Reply

      You are right- sometimes therapy is the very wrong thing for delicate pelvic tissue to grind against polypropylene plastic… not therapy at all! We all think therapy is good but consider the materials involved here!!! Also from her interview Ms. Cavness was VERY concerned about losing her job. She was getting divorced and her job was her lifeline…. not time off for physical therapy… it might hurt her job!

      • kitty October 13, 2015 at 2:17 am - Reply

        I agree Jane. Remember I told u ladies I was so excited to move to our new place with the gigantic bath tub so that I could do my pelvic tilts and bridges I learned in thetapy? OMG the pain was so intense after I got out of the tub. So much for under water therspy.

      • cybil October 27, 2015 at 10:35 am - Reply

        Jane – As a veteran of intra-vaginal and intra-rectal Physical Therapy manipulation for well over 6-months, I can attest to the fact that IF the mesh has contracted and is still totally intact in the pelvis, the manipulation of PT is excruciating! After well over 48 sessions (by multiple certified internal PT providers), I can also state that PT exasperated the pain. I had to endure terrible pain during therapy and intensified pain after therapy. Physical therapy was a vicious and cruel cycle that provided NO RELIEF from the MESH MONSTER inside of me!

        • Jane Akre October 27, 2015 at 10:47 am - Reply

          That makes sense,,,,, mesh rubbing internally sounds like pure torture.!!!

        • Bejah Blue October 29, 2015 at 8:29 pm - Reply

          Cybil. Thank you for this post. I for one have been told repeatedly by different Urologists that the mesh is still intact as if that is all that mattered. These are physicians I should be able to trust. People who should be on my side of this argument but they are not. Clearly the intactness of this material is not all we should be considering. How can they look at me and tell me that as if I am expected to believe it. Have they no moral compass at all. What are we teaching in medical schools I ask again. And what do women physicians think….how do they respond to this sort of argument. Why do there seem to be no female Urogynecologists? Is this attitude ignorance or adherence to party line? To me at least in part they seem to feign ignorance and as we have seen so much, they even clearly state they do not want to be involved, even refusing women they have implanted. There do not seem to be any ramifications when this conduct occurs. I wonder how many women have filed complaints with their state medical boards about these physicians. What is the value in even seeing them? An what can we do to address the kind of pain we are left with when they often deny this also? I remain very suspicious of this pelvic floor physical therapy and I am going to try to learn more about its development. But if something causes you such pain shouldn’t you stop doing it right away? Please do not tell me they told you to work through the pain. Thanks again for your perspective. I pray you are feeling a little better now. I wonder if warm water flushes would provide comfort. Seems like they might. Maybe I will try this and let ya’ll know.


          • cybil October 31, 2015 at 12:32 pm

            Bejah – I do not believe that with the mesh intact that intra-vaginal/rectal will be of ANY help. It will ONLY worsen the pain. Yes, they will tell you (even the implanting physician) that it will be of great help. However, it just adds insult to the injury – and, the excruciating pain following each session lasts until the next session! It’s like the one doctor, I believe from Australia ??? said “…it’s like sitting on a cheese grater…..”. Honestly, this is like they shove the cheese grater up your vagina or rectum and just grind away – UNbelievable discomfort and pain during the hour-long sessions and following! My implanting surgeon kept encouraging me by telling me it was going to help. Now, I know he was afraid that the implant was causing me the pain, but because he was ignorant of what to do next, he was hoping that the PT was the answer – just like he was hoping Estrogen creme, narcotics, biofeedback, acupunture, etc. were the answer. In all honesty, his urging me to do PT was just another way of EXPERIMENTING on me! We were and are JUST “lab rats” to them all – nothing else. Now, he is still considered a “TOP DOC” and reviews on his site are from women stating that “….mesh worked perfectly…” and that he’s the “….most kind and caring…” doctor, and that all their problems were “…fixed by the mesh….”! It absolutely is SO frustrating to read this BS supposedly by his patients. I actually do believe he is having someone on his staff write this.

          • Bejah Blue November 3, 2015 at 9:03 pm

            OK, Warm water flushes are wonderful. I have done it and incorporate it now into my little pain medicine “toolkit”.

            I also got out one of the heating pads and put it on my abdomen and alternately the base of my spine. This also was wonderful. I wish I could tape them to myself when I go out…with duct tape and maybe a battery pak!

            Today I went out and stocked up on medicinals OTC in preparation for the horror that may come beginning in 2016 as “controlled” substances are withdrawn from my reach. I bought 1.75 L bottles of rum (If you buy a few the price drops), and burbon, as well as Lemonella and port (It is wonderful) and a couple of other things. Next month I will stock up on after dinner drinks and other liquors like Baileys Irish Cream. I may even Champagne in the event there is either some very good news or it is time to check out. I also got a supply of sleep medicine that my beloved doctor in La Jolla used to take. I am going to look into medical marijuana also. Maybe I can grow my own. I know someone who can give me some to start. What are they going to do….put my in prison? Maybe Jane will come and interview me behind bars.

            I have realized that there is a reason why we should try very, very hard not to ever give in to the idea of suicide when it gets finally so bad it is unbearable. I am not there yet…not even close (but the fear makes it seem closer) but I can see it in the distance, how can I not?

            They have taken so much from us and now they dare to deny us pain medication on top of failing to protect us against these lawless corporations. And it does not even phase them.

            Anyway, I have realized that it may be possible that after death from suicide our souls may become lost and remain attached to the earth and that is not what we want. That would be very bad. Some of you may still believe that death is the end. You must admit at least that really you do not know, you can not know that. I tell you death is not the end. And having your soul left adrift between life and death is not what we deserve. That would be a “fate worse than death” I would think. If any of us get to the point where suicide seems the only option, we must seek out those who understand and can direct us to states, nations and people who believe in the validity of assisted suicide, honorable death and can create a comfortable, supportive, ceremonial close to our time here on earth, regardless of what “officials” or law enforcement” or governments or critics try to force upon us. We are not alone in this.

            I know that Oregon is a refuge in this regard (One must establish residency for at least one year), and I believe Holland would also be very supportive. I would guess that India and certain areas of South East Asia would as well. It may be good to make sure we are all educated to some degree about these things. Clearly our government continues to fail us on every level, at every turn.

            I am exploring moving to perhaps Central or South America, Singapore or somewhere in South East Asia. Be sure you understand how your health insurance will be affected by such a move. I discovered, for example, that just in the last two years my health insurance was changed quietly and now will not cover me outside of the United States. I believe the reason for this is because this nation does not want me taking my discretionary income out of the US.

            We supposedly have the best healthcare in the world, but I do not seem to be benefitting from it. Perhaps I am not sufficiently upper class or sufficiently young to make the investment worthwhile.

            I guess the point is that we must consider all of these things and not put it off. We must make sure we are well informed and have contingency plans in place. When and if the time comes we want to be able to make conscious, informed and reasonable decisions, and we do not want to do so in an atmosphere where we feel panicked or cornered or pressured.

            These are difficult subjects to tackle but we are now seasoned professionals where all of this is concerned. How many nations in the world do you think deny patients in need of even barely sufficient pain medication? I feel a little like I did when I came home and found my husband in our bed with his secretary…betrayal just doesn’t cut it.


    • Bejah Blue October 21, 2015 at 1:31 pm - Reply

      Thank you for mentioning this Addison. I can attest to the truth of this. Also, I have been told not to see a Chiropractor and although I can not this minute remember if it was because of my spine or because of the mesh but even if I had no spine issues I would not consider seeing a Chiropractor or a Pelvic Floor Physical Therapist now.

      Sometimes what doctors recommend is the wrong thing despite their best intentions. For us, the road to death is paved with good intentions it seems. Need I say, doctors make mistakes. We need to take care to look at any such recommendations with a very critical eye and if we have any doubts not take the suggested action. We always have the option of doing it later following perhaps a second opinion or after we have researched the matter ourselves sufficiently to determine that it would be safe IF we go to someone highly qualified (And that is dependent on our finances).

      I do not necessarily go to health care providers recommended by another doctor because I can not be certain there is a relationship between them that is….how shall I put it?…unbecomming. I tend to trust doctors that do not follow the party line, doctors that are independent thinkers, unphased by pressure from their peers in the community to do what they would otherwise perhaps not do. In my community this is a big problem. It is very politican and this effects us, the patients, sometimes seriously. This is why I really dislike Medical Groups and we need to remember that they work for physicians and physician professional organizations, NOT patients.


  13. Jane Goering October 7, 2015 at 8:28 pm - Reply

    Thank you to Jane (for everything she does) and to “Karen”. She is generous to do this for all of us. Many good comments and food for thought. I have wondered how the mesh could have become so difficult to remove after only a few weeks.

  14. Anna October 7, 2015 at 8:48 pm - Reply

    We all had a reason for getting a mesh placement no question about it. The question is were we, or the doctors given the proper information. My doctors never told me the dificulties I would have to endure, removing a mesh like net out of dry concrete. Also, we were not informed that we might have to deal the possibility of nerve pain for the rest of our lives for reasons of incontinence or prolaps. I’ am sure if we were given that information about TVM it would not have choice of procedure. I think that some attorneys are not as prepared as they should be for this cases.

  15. Jane Akre October 7, 2015 at 9:17 pm - Reply

    Karen adds:

    I also did not answer the part about Ms/ Cavness interview.

    The defendant made a very good point about Ms. Cavness testimony..

    During her testimony quite a few of her answers were “I don’t know or I don’t remember” (which I wouldn’t either, it was over 3 years ago). So if we wanted accurate feelings & pains we need to go off of the medical records that were taken the day of the pain & the day she was at the doctor, not what she said about going to the doctor 3 years after the fact.

    Which is an extremely good point-are you going to go off a medical record or what someone said 3 years later..it was hard to fight that point with other jury members.

    • Bejah Blue October 10, 2015 at 10:34 pm - Reply

      Also medical records often contain errors that are difficult to correct. If you always request a copy of your medical records and read them you will probably encounter this (assuming you can read the handwriting). The larger problem and I have experienced this several times, the medical records are deliberately altered, falsified. This is why it is best to get a copy as soon as you can. Then you have the best chance of having a true record.


    • Barb October 11, 2015 at 10:03 pm - Reply

      Jane I’m one who remember’s each and everyday since 2008 how many specialist, their names, each diagnosis, every medication, every revision, date and where. She should have been advised by her attorney’s if such a question was asked what her reply should have been! I know she suffer’s like us all, shouldn’t her attorney’s should have met with her and gone over each and every paper concerning her case?? Do they or don’t they go over grueling questions?? How you should respond to questions? JNJ knew there were loop holes that they could and would give the jury a reasonable doubt however we all need to be assertive! Not to take anything away from this case but I’d like to switch to AMS settlements! This whole time I thought I was speaking to a real paralegal however she’s in training! Still have not gotten any answere;s to my questions, I asked her to speak to an attorney she told me to call the other firm from Florida! I did this time I asked to speak to a real paralegal, I asked her is there any reason why I could not speak to an attorney she put me on hold came back and asked me if there were questions she could answer? I said maybe you can. 1) After all this time what are they going to do with woman who have more then one defective device I would think that puts us in a different category since we would be the ones more apt to have serious issues now and in the future”I’m not sure what they will do but it will be considered” 2) What about having our SUI and POP issues taking care of I did not have POP documented until 2012 and nothing even mentioned in my records before” You have to make sure it’s noted and caused my mesh then file an EFI for more money” 3) How.who determines the money’s needed for these future surgeries”I don’t know” 4) Having already 3 revisions and one July 17. 2015 how is that going to work?”your 3 revisions will be in your packet however you will have to file a paper for more money since surgery was done after the deadline” 5) what about where your doctor has stated that due to many complications you will never be 100%”I;m not sure but I think it will be considered” When she told me the highest pay out for category 4 is $300,000 without any injuries applied with 40% plus taken I blew my gasket!! I told her very unfair woman who go to court get pain and suffering, back compensation for future medical, and why not monies for not being properly informed, and punitive damages!! Just so unfair in so many ways. I loose more hope in my attorney’s every day especially where we first were supposed to recieve a letter of confirmation of injuries and now I STILL cannot get anyone to answere!! At this point they have got to know all answeres to every question if you don’t know FIND someone who can!!! I don’t want to be a millionaire however I think Judge Goodwin should have set guidlines I personally would have been so much happier being awarded punitive damages of say $1 million at least we would walk away with around $450, 000 after all percentages. And who’s the smart A@@ who had the authority to put points in each category based on tiers of injuries??? So I will receive more money for 4th more invasive surgery and for surgeries down the road, but not sure how they will base the money on upcoming surgeries?? The paralegal told me it would be a good idea to go back to each specialist, get all test results and why. I’m refusing everything she asked me to do is already in their hands, most/all states mesh related and I told her its already been proven in court cases and also revealed by the FDA that these products cause serious injuries mine are all listed plus more! My liver enzymes are still off the paper my doctor verbally said it very well could be caused from the mesh when my blood work was done 8 months ago that’s all that was detected however after last week I was diagnosed with thyroid normal should be around 1.2 mine was 4.7 not too low but for me since never having any issues with my thyroid it’s very strange. I know that having sepsis the infection is in your bloodstream which runs through your organs having a dropped bladder/overactive bladder which is dropped behind my vagina wouldn’t that need to be put back in the correct place?? Is that considered organ prolapse as well along with cycstocele/rectocele that also was discovered in 2012. I’m just so confused about what is organ prolapse even though have researched. Maybe Dr. V could you clear up some one my questions medically?? I’m happy to report that my doctor who has performing injections and blocks has decided to keep me on even with medicare! Only thing he would like in return is any sum of money for donations or bring in food! He has decided for his patients on medicare this will all be donated to the hungry and people in need!!

      • Jane Akre October 12, 2015 at 2:14 pm - Reply

        I’m so sorry you are not getting answers from your law firm… when it comes time they will not hesitate to retrieve their 40% and there will be no talking to paralegals then. I hope they are reading this and have up to speed individuals to talk to you.

      • msm October 14, 2015 at 2:25 pm - Reply

        Barb – I wonder if anyone with AMS will actually speak to an attorney throughout the entire process. It is as if AMS chose to “settle” to get out of the judge’s view. The cases are, in effect, being “tried” between AMS and the law firms and without a jury and without a judge. These “negotiations” to group each case into a “tier”, are done in secret. Unless the settlement is appealed to the Special Master (for a fee), will there be an official transcript and record of these “negotiations” for each plaintiff to see?

        To rely predominately on medical records is easier. If anyone’s medical records are completely true and tell the whole story, it would be an anomaly. What is actually in these “packets”? What has been included or excluded that the plaintiff is unaware of? Did “trainees” put the “packets” together? I hope not!

        Every plaintiff should receive a transcript of the negotiations that led to their categorization BEFORE the negotiation has ended. They should be allowed to correct the information that is actually presented for the negotiations. But that’s not the way it will work.

        I did notice that Judge Goodwin has ordered AMS to file an accounting of every settlement and the amount because AMS is required to pay 5% of every settlement into a fund set up by the court for the MDL. It is order PTO_199.pdf. So the judge is going to know if the cases that have been “closed” have really been settled or just marked as closed on the AMS MDL 2325 listing to feign progress.

        NEARLY HALF of the cases for AMS show as “CLOSED” !

        • Barb October 16, 2015 at 10:02 pm - Reply

          MSM fully agree with you!! We were supposed to recieve a letter of notification of injuries that the panel of doctors associated with our injuries associated with the mesh. However I have been demanding to speak to an attorney, since the whole time I have been speaking with a trainee paralegl!! I have so many questions that at this point they are still telling me I DONT KNOW!! At this point everything should have been discussed and all questions should be answered! I was originally told the first letter of injuries we could go over and add any injuries that were not noted, however now since the packet is going to come with a dollar figure with injuries I think we can still add something that is missing as long as we have it noted by a doctor!! First they said all AMS would have their packets/letter no later then October 2015 now they stated no later then December 2015!! I think they owe AMS clients a letter before the packet what are the injuries the doctors and Special Master have put on our individual cases as we are still supposed to be awarded on individual basis due to injuries. Things seem to change whenever I call. I was dealing with the Texas Firm then she told me cal the Florida Firm to speak to an attorney. To no evailabe of an attorney I’m going to call Monday and sit on the phone as long as it takes! First they were going to set up a fund for those who would be having surgery between January 1, 2015 to December 31, 2016. That has now changed we will need to fie an IFU form for more monies after the deadline, making sure our doctors have stated more surgeries will be needed! In my situation and possibly yours I still have the 2 defective devices, I’m not sure at this point if at some point my doctor will want all removed, still need surgery for SUI, at 53 I refuse to live my life urinating 24/7, I also did not have organ prolapse prior to my surgery in 2008, diagnosed with rectocele/cycstocele grade 3 for both I have had 3 revisions but the most invasive July 17 2015 since it was past the deadline I have to fie another form for more money for this since it will not be included!! I fully agree with you we should recieve all documentation pertaining to our cases! They should hear our voices, they need to be made aware of the PP and yet not known what it could do to our bodies!! I read that AMS has already settled 1 billion!! They say closed MSM because of the litigations ! Judge goodwin ask them to consider what these woman have been through however they are not following the rules I’m sure!! And just FYI if you file an IFU form no fee’s will be taken out! I would like to know how they are going to come up with a figure for future surgeries that could be where we could make the most money like when woman are warded money for future medical bills however we will not even come close to what they get!! We deff should be more involved with our cases, our voices should be heard, concerns considered!!! I will let you know what answere’s I get!! These are going to be my questions;

          1) what Category/Tier are woman put in with more then 1 defective device

          2) What about having all types of different infections that we know will also be part of our future

          3) My surgery in July had 5 procedures including mesh erosion which was only cut away from my uterous/bladder

          4) What about intertestial cyctisis -a life time disease treated with meds

          5) The PP have effected my liver enzymes and now have a thyroid problem diagnosed 2 weeks ago

          6) Why no pain and suffering awarded we are no different then those that go to court

          7) What about the emotional and mental anguish

          the list goes on however I will throw your questions in since those are IMPORTANT and they work for us which entitles us to speak with these so called empathetic attorneys let’s see how empathetic they really are!! I’m also going to ask who decided to put us in categories and the point system of TIERS!! These are human lives, not bingo!

          • Jane Akre October 20, 2015 at 1:29 pm

            Remember, many law firms simply pass your case to another… then they “co-counsel” meaning they get 5% even if they did nothing but pass it along. That may be the reason they can’t answer your questions…. because they don’t know!!!

        • Barb October 16, 2015 at 10:05 pm - Reply

          MSM I think we can also confirm with our client number.

  16. karen October 7, 2015 at 9:17 pm - Reply

    Bravo Jane !!!!

    Thank you karen ,thank you all . The support here is awesome. This truly hurts, the stupidity of Johnson and Johnson is unreasonable. They pay Doctors to lie for them , they hire salesman to hunt down professional knowing vaginal mesh doesn’t belong in women . Yes the statements were made about the lady issues , but are there any humans left that don’t know they differents between real life and sitting in front of a tv . The facts where there but others wasn’t. I can’t wait to go to trail I will have fun with Johnson and Johnson and they wonderful attorneys. Can’t Wait .

  17. MAMOHIO October 7, 2015 at 11:56 pm - Reply

    Thanks to the juror stepping up maybe some law firms will use this experience to make it better for the next upcoming trials. Especially the WV in Dec.

  18. Lana Keeton October 8, 2015 at 2:07 am - Reply

    Incomprehensible attorney firm presented case without scientific evidence of inherent defects of polypropylene mesh, implanted or in the original package. I have approached them but they choose not to receive the info. This was a losing case walking in the door. Smoker who still works physical labor. Piece of cake for Ethicon/J&J. Ms. Cavness was re-victimized by the legal system as most of us are. 1st thing is she is small woman implanted with one size fits all product. Does no one think about the most basic flaws of mesh? And I treated personally with Carley and Zimmern. Neither one of them has been provided with a protocol to remove the mesh. There is NOT ONE. I won’t share my huge disappointment with Zimmern but Ms. Cavness was not served properly by him because he is such a conservative surgeon. The FDA is a complete failure. Implantation of mesh in anyone for any reason is barbaric. Ms. Cavness’s insides are mutilated daily by the remaining mesh. I hope she is emotionally okay after such an ordeal. We all should pray for her.

    • Jane Akre October 12, 2015 at 2:27 pm - Reply

      Excellent point about the one size fits all approach of mesh. As if women are Barbie dolls…. complete and reckless disregard for patient safety.

  19. Nanny Bug October 8, 2015 at 8:13 am - Reply

    Hey Jane since my last contact. On here the nerve damage had gotten so bad that I stumble & fall over my own feet . I’ve had 4 operations the last the doctor told me wasn’t needed . She thought where I am very tender inside & a certain place that is touched for 4 years makes me scream if its touched. She told me that was mesh she felt & she was sure of it & my doctor at UAB had made a mistake . When surgery was gone she was rude to me as if I was lying to her . She was so up set she wouldn’t even stay and talk to me. As usual I was devistated . I don’t know whSt it is I’m feeling but it sure is something that when it’s touched is breath taking it so painful . Bad nerve damage cause me to fall & break my foot, ankle , tibula & fibula. Now two weeks a go I was told I have developed diabetes . It’s something different every couple of months or so I guess. What else can happen to me ? I’m trying so hard BECSUSE of all the health issues to keep what’s left of my hair clean & look as nice as I can . My perfectly white teeth teeth have gone bad a front one has a crack in it . I have lost 4 jaw teeth last year. I had no clue they were bad . One had infection so bad it ate through the jaw bone . Antibiotics were so powerful I passed out several tines in three wks. To top that off the cataracts I never had are worse . One the size of an m&m was removed may 2014 & the vision is worse than I was before . The other eye has a pea size one that has to come off. My surgeon said I was one of the youngest patients he ever had to have cataracts & I had early glaucoma . So yo get this right IM GOING BALD, my teeth are so bad there cracking & coming out like a neth addict , I pee all over myself daily, I cant control my bowels, both eyes are blurry & one little light look like a star burst. I have scars all over, I hurt daily , huge scars on all 4 sides of the leg I broke. I’ve become reclusive I’m a same to ho to church and even smile . I have more hernias in my abdominal , I have got drop on my right for from nerve damage , I Alwsys have a HBC & usually hematocrit is low, I’m not 60 yet but what in the world could possibly happen next !!! My vagina throbs , my legs throbbs, my marriage after 25 years has problems now . My hop throbbs because I can’t set all the time on my bottom without throwing my legs over the side to relieve pressure . I’m constantly breaking my toes because my feet have gone numb the last 3 years & their usually numb. So if J & J can help get me done nice teeth only as beautiful as they were in 2010, but my poise pad monthly, pay gor my eyes to get fixed since I have no more health ins. Get me some surgery on both eyes, a new rectocele, pretty legs lije the ones I use to have that matched, a hair transplant like men can get & let don’t forget the toes , feet & legs all the up to my lady part. & get her a face lift while were at it because she has gone through a living hell on earth ( she being my vagina & her friend that lives next door my hiny hole) we may can fix me so if any one could have yo power that reZds this to ask J & J to just PKESSE give the the chance to speak for myself and others it would be so wonderful. I would count it as a great blessing an honor to speak whil I’m still alive on behalf of others like myself !! Through allvthisvi have to say I’m blessed because my daughter died with breast cancer at age 31 & I have been able to be a part of my grandchildrens lived . I would much rather have been able to do the things she wanted and thought I could do when she died. Help make them happy but the had to to he put on the other foot they have had to help me for over 5 years. I truly bet this poor Cluet had a story to tell pretty close to my own . Pain is pain JURORS IT IS WORDE FOR DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE BODY . SHANE ON HOU GIR BEING RESDY HONE AND NOT FIGHTING FOR HER RIGHTS !! God bless THISE of you that step forward and help her as this juror did . Please pray for us as we strive to be as best as we can be for our families &!put on make up even if we cry it off as soon as it drys . That’s why my preacher encouraged me to just buy waterproof . Please my eyes SRE getting so bad my eyes have to be fixed before I loose them both for good . I gear if you smoke pot it actuallcan help glaucona but that a crime & illegal in Alabama . He em forbid I break the law to try to help this. I wouldn’t wanna go to jail for doing wrong to myself. Forget the thousands that their lives have been destroyed & they can’t get justice !! IF THEY WOULD SAY THEIR JUST SORRY & it will stop would help my feeling JUST STOP NLAMING THIS ON OUR NERVES & MAY BE GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU LUES & PAIN INFLICTED UPON OTHERS . My eyes have worsened over the past two years everything is getting blurry with strong bifocals . Forgive my errors & mispelkings . I truly hope yu can make son since out of this .

    • Bejah Blue October 10, 2015 at 10:43 pm - Reply

      NannyBug, Thank you for keeping us informed about your condition, your symptoms, how you are coping. You are so brave and yes, we can read this just fine. Just do what you can, just do your best and try to think about what you still have and not to mourn what is gone as it will just amplify your sorrow. Everything you have said helps us all in some way. Do not torment yourself with hope that these defendants will ever admit to anything, will ever make amends, will ever tell you they are sorry. It will never happen. Focus instead on those you know care about you, those who are helping you and be thankful for them. I am sure many of us will be praying for you in the days that come. Blessings,


      • Nanny Bug October 23, 2015 at 3:59 am - Reply

        Thank you for your kind words of encouragement . I greatly appreciate it from the bottom of my heart !! Thank you for your prayers & thank you for caring ! Nanny Bug

  20. kitty October 8, 2015 at 8:41 am - Reply

    Perhaps they should have said considerable discomfort—inability to walk long distance or lift et al due to prolapse. Severe emotional pain at potential loss of womanhood

  21. Andagain October 9, 2015 at 6:59 pm - Reply

    Nanny I had the same thing happen to my teeth and 4 surgeries and no dentist will say this is why. I had beautiful teeth it’s all been so depressing.

    • Jane Akre October 12, 2015 at 2:22 pm - Reply

      Ive heard of dental problems with many people…. it could simply not be a coincidence.

    • Bejah Blue October 13, 2015 at 8:46 pm - Reply

      And Again, My dentist has said they are prepared to accept that there is a relationship between mesh implant and subsequent dental problems that are inconsistent with patient profile, age, etc. They want me to show them scientific papers, study results, etc. This is a lot better than refusal to consider, pretending awareness, or lack of interest. If we could demonstrate that a certain percentage of victims had this problem then there may be interest in doing studies. Anyone having dental problems please mention it here so it can be added to data banks either now or later. I am sure Jane is retaining all posts so researchers can ask for permission and go back to look for patterns of pathology and this material may be more telling as years pass and we begin to see, for example, certain cancers or diseases of the nervous system that we may suspect now but can not yet demonstrate. If the defendants do global settlements that will have an impact on our ability to revisit data concerning the victims who have received settlements. Anyway, my file with my dentist does state possible polypropelene as a causal factor for some dental issues and it is important to bring this up with your dentist if you experience unusual or frequent dental problems post implant so everyone please do that.



      • Jane Akre October 14, 2015 at 10:40 am - Reply

        Would love to see this body of work….and get your dentist’s assessment on it

        • Bejah Blue October 18, 2015 at 5:51 pm - Reply

          Jane, As soon as there is something substantive from me you know I will share it with you, perhaps privately first.

          I had another thought…even if we are able to prove causal connections with much of what victims are reporting now…is there some statute after which such documentation can not be used by plaintiffs in actions against these rogue corporations? I hope not. Are the defendants manipulating statutes also?


          • Advocate October 24, 2015 at 3:22 pm


            With regard to your question on manipulating statutes, please remember how a statue comes to be. They are written and passed by state or federal legislatures, depending on the type of statute being discussed. I understand the longer this litigation goes, the more many of you are exposed to a system and process, most don’t understand. Thus, it is easy to suggest conspiracies to give us an explanation for what we don’t know or don’t like. I’m not suggesting a lobbyist or group couldn’t get the necessary changes, but a single litigation, even this size, won’t be sufficient to put all tort cases in play for this statute to be changed for mesh alone.

            When I see posts where one says, “the case wasn’t trial ready” or another that suggests the attorneys, failed to provide all the plaintiffs “compelling scientific documentation”, the realization of how little people understand trial is glaring. These trials are not conducted in a vacuum, that is to say, all aspects of wins and losses are used in the next trial. Another reason why the same attorneys or members, are used for each trial. The attorneys in this trial had victories in previous mesh trials. Another post asked why this case was allowed to get to trial. Well, the judicial system says each side has the right to select cases. Would one think defense would only pick those cases supporting the plaintiff, or is it reasonable to think they’d select a weaker case? Did Ms. Cavness think she would lose? Doubtful. She wanted her day in court as many here do. But we must all remember that the rules trials follow, have existed long before our mesh litigation. They have served the system in the same fashion from car accidents to murders, to corporate fraud. The rules didn’t just happen. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Trial is never better than 50/50 and as such, should be approached with caution. We all know of cases where the verdict was different than anyone expected. They were not conspiracies, they were peers rendering their verdict.

          • Jane Akre October 25, 2015 at 10:46 pm

            So true. Anyone who tell you your case is a slam dunk is a fool.

  22. Anonymous October 12, 2015 at 2:00 pm - Reply

    Glad this juror came forward to explain the group think process and how so many minds got changed over one little tiny nugget of information! Too bad there wasn’t anyone in the room to explain that pain is relevant! No two people have the exact same pain it’s a number that is based on your own personal experience in life UP TO THAT POINT! A 7 on the pain scale three years ago was a 7 until that point in life, three years and numerous surgeries, recoveries, medication attempts and being forced to accept the “new normal” you have become makes a 7 a much higher level of pain tolerance today! A seven for me now is nothing compared to what a 7 was three years ago! This is a subjective measurement not an objective measurement and it is clearly not relevant using a pain scale from three years ago as a comparison for the amount of pain felt today, this should not have even been allowed into the trial!

  23. stopmeshimplants October 12, 2015 at 4:09 pm - Reply

    I would like to ask Karen if she feels she has a true understanding of the pain

    we all experience daily. Since the verdict have you investigated and read about

    the thousands and thousands of individuals harmed by mesh? I am curious if you had

    any idea of the magnitude of devastation this mesh has created for so many.

    Thank you for coming forward to share your experience. I am saddened by the

    verdict and cannot imagine what Carol and her family must be feeling.

  24. Karen October 13, 2015 at 8:38 pm - Reply

    I have not logged on in a while. I will answer all questions tomorrow as well as any questions anyone may have. Thank you.

    • Jane Akre October 14, 2015 at 10:40 am - Reply

      Thanks Karen…… I still find it amazing the outcome… I really don’t get it.

    • Still Standing October 14, 2015 at 7:25 pm - Reply

      Karen. I appreciate your time and probably much emotional distress and conflict as you deliberated this case. It had to be heartwrenching at times. I want you to know, as a mesh injured person, that I do not hold you respnsible for this verdict or the potential future verdicts of injured women. It was not your responsibility to understand the pain and suffering of all of the injured. You were just tasked with objectively looking at the facts of this one case. None of us should ask you to do more. Again, thank you for your service.

  25. Hal Lewis October 15, 2015 at 9:24 am - Reply


    As a juror who has “been there”…

    you are offering all of us a VERY VALUABLE INSIGHT on the trial process and the “group think” jury process.

    THANK YOU for your service!!!

  26. TLP October 18, 2015 at 7:47 am - Reply

    Barb, HAL, JANE , I too have AMS. Why can’t we have our day in a court room. My medical problems are growing daily. In category 4 . Have heard NOTHING YET !! My colon is now being affected . I can’t go at all. Exray and cat scan shows horrible excessive. Nothing is working for me. Autoimmune disorders, thyroid , Hashi. Hypo thyroid, parathyroidism secondary Hypro…… NOTHING WAS WRONG WITH ME BEFORE THIS MESH….. Why can’t we have a jury hear us ??? ANYONE I am so sick and depressed .. When will this be over. I am loosing it all .. And 300,000 for category 4 Really ?? First I heard that. What can we do ? Can we refuse ? Then what ? Thanks

    • msm October 20, 2015 at 12:46 pm - Reply

      You can decline to accept a settlement and go to trial. Your attorney should be able to clarify the implications of doing so.

    • Barb October 20, 2015 at 11:02 pm - Reply

      TLP- Yes category 4 is $300, 000 however within the category’s there are TIERS where there is a point system where they use to decide what injuries they feel are associated! If you need future surgery make sure your Dr. States what needs to be done and associated with mesh. I did’nt have prolapse prior however both now, check your liver enzymes, mine are off I too was just diagnosed with underactive thyroid never had thyroid issues and didn’t 6 months ago. My surgeon believes some of my pain is intertestial cystitis she wants to refer my to a urologist to see if I’m a good candidate for collagen injections to help with SUI. She said she has done full removals however extremely difficult but If I want it taken out she said she would. Then we discussed the good ole BURCH method! A larger scare an overnight stay in the hospital. I’m thinking medicare will not cover injections! So for my future surgeries are deff taking care of the organ prolapse, if medicare doesn’t pay for injections then the Burch method will be performed. Make sure to file an IFU with your attorneys if your Dr. states needed surgery in future! MSM-today I actually got a call from an attorney after going through 4 people however we will have a phone discussion tomorrow I’m wondering how/who is going to put a money figure on future surgeries and there are no fees. I feel like you as far as not having our cases heard in court, at least give us punitive damages!

    • Mamohio November 1, 2015 at 9:32 pm - Reply

      The AMS. Checks are being processed now. If I didn’t take my measley amount I cant file my EIF (Extraordinary Injury Fund). I got the lowest you can possibky get and my husband didn’t get anything. So yes I’m taking it so I cm file for more money. No amount will make us anew. We have been maimed, tortured, lied too, discriminated, and used as guinea pigs. Until we. Can get. All of us women together in one big rally and make the news we will get pennies. Complaining on this site still does nothing but listen to what every other woman has gone thru. We have all been to hell and back. When are we going to stand up for ourselves and get serious. I’m ready in Ohio anyone want to join me at our capitol building. Gov Kasich is running for president, NOW IS THE TIME! Email me if you want to make a change cleveland_browns43342@hotmail.com frankly I’m tired of the complaining and ready to start acting. If not J & J will settle just like AMS and you will not got millions it will be little to nothing at all. Too late to complain afterwards. Hindsight is 20/20

  27. TLP October 21, 2015 at 6:48 pm - Reply

    What are we to do with a 180,000 settlement ? Our medical bills. Our divorce paid for. We lost everything. Spouses , jobs, health .. My doctor said today my thyroid nodules may now be cancer . My attorney has kept me in the dark. Wont answer any of my calls. My kids have suffered so much.. When will this so called settlement come ? I have mesh still inside me. My doctor said if he removes more I will not walk !! Now what ? None of us women can live the rest of our lives on 180,000 after there 40% taken out…. Thanks for the help Barb I really appreciate your honesty !!

    • Jane Akre October 22, 2015 at 2:59 pm - Reply

      You may want to find a doctor who can do a mesh removal without leaving you paralyzed. That speaks of a possibly unskilled surgeon… can you get a second opinion? These settlements in no way approach what each of you will need to live on for the rest of your life. Can your attorney consider a life care plan OR adding a pudendal neuralgia diagnosis if it applies to your case? That would increase the settlement monies.

  28. Barb October 21, 2015 at 7:44 pm - Reply

    Still confused however this is what I was told today by my law firm. We will not be compensated for having anything we had previously to the defective mesh implants. Meaning for us all who had SUI-POP prior too they will not award any monies to have these issues taken care of!! So if we had infections prior too, that’s not considered, pain and suffering is included in the caps payout, we cannot be involved in any discussions with whom ever makes and puts the amount of settlement, they came to an agreement with AMS, if anyone has had surgery after the deadline you will need to appeal for more money, once we decide to sign papers and things get in place there is no going back!! I was told that some company’s can file chapter 13 however AMS will not they have all ready disbursed 1 year of settlements and the firm just recieved year 2. They apparently are getting the easiest cases taken care of they are a little behind, however they want to get everyone’s payouts by December 2015, January 2016. Government wants to be paid back 25% however I believe that only includes revisions!! I said so people don’t really care about the PP what it can do to our bodies and already proven no words were said!! We will have to have a structured settlement or HIDE so we can still get medicare/government insurance. Again we can ask to go to court however she appeared that would not be a good idea. Age at the implant is also going to be considered if you were in your 40’s and had it done VS is you were in your 60’s 70’s you will get less money! I have no idea at this point what to think!!

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